Over the past week, an online skirmish over who qualifies to be called an “Army Ranger” once again bubbled to the social media surface, this time spurred by a Salon article calling out Republican Senator Tom Cotton for referring to himself as a Ranger, despite never serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Here at Sandboxx News, we work hard to not pick sides in our nation’s politics, so while we won’t discuss Cotton’s claims or those made against him, it seems prudent that we explore the premise behind this latest social media dust-up.
The Tab Vs. Scroll debate
I want to be clear right from the onset here that my military experience was in the U.S. Marine Corps–I never served in the Army, let alone as a Ranger, and although I have some good friends who have earned their seats at the Rangers’ table, I’m speaking from the vantage point of an unbiased outsider.
The debate about who gets to wear the title of Army Ranger really boils down to the difference between those who have completed Army Ranger school, and those who actually served in the 75th Ranger Regiment. The waters around the Ranger title grow even muddier thanks to the Army’s inclusive use of the term and the school that bears its name.
Army Ranger School is a two-month leadership and tactics course that is widely considered to be among the best military leadership training in all of America’s arsenal. Upon completion of the grueling Ranger School, graduates are awarded a Ranger Tab to wear on their uniform that says “Ranger” and denotes the wearer’s successful completion of the program. From there, new Ranger School graduates can go on to fill all sorts of roles within the U.S. Army, as the program itself is available to any qualifying Soldier.
However, the Ranger Tab does not indicate service in the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is the special operations unit commonly thought of when one says “Army Ranger.” In order to earn a place in the Ranger Regiment, you need to complete the Ranger Assessment and Selection Program (RASP). Once you make it through selection, you earn your Ranger Scroll, which denotes your assignment to the special operations unit that has rightfully garnered a great deal of acclaim throughout America’s history.
And therein lies the very basis of the “Tab vs. Scroll” debate: Completing Ranger School means that you are “Ranger qualified,” whereas actually serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment means you’re an Army Ranger (technically speaking). But it still gets even more complicated from there. You can be assigned to the Ranger Regiment after completing RASP, and still never go on to complete Ranger School.
That means you can earn your Ranger Tab without serving in the Ranger Regiment, or you can serve in the Ranger Regiment without ever earning the Ranger Tab… Confused yet?
So who gets to call themselves Army Rangers?
In the minds of many who served in the 75th Ranger Regiment, only an assignment to the storied 75th earns you the right to call yourself an Army Ranger, and all those who completed Ranger School without such an assignment are seen only as “Ranger qualified.” This sentiment can be found elaborated upon in an article originally published in the Havoc Journal in September of 2019 called, “‘The Scroll of Truth’: Having a Tab Doesn’t Make You a Ranger.”
“Sorry everyone, having a Ranger Tab means you went to a school that qualified you to wear a Ranger Tab, it doesn’t make you a Ranger. You have to serve in the Ranger Regiment to be a modern Ranger,” the article reads.
So is it really that simple? Well, like most online debates, it all depends on who you ask, but for the record, even the Army itself seems to be unsure about who gets the right to call themselves “Army Rangers” and who doesn’t.
In a great article dissecting the current political turmoil this debate has stirred up, former Army Ranger and Green Beret turned investigative journalist Jack Murphy points out that selective use of the title seems to be more about form than function. As Murphy points out in the article, senior Army officials as well as many within the media were quick to credit the first female Soldiers to complete Army Ranger school as legitimate Rangers, despite never being assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment.
Murphy explains that, despite foxholes being dug around the internet on both sides of this debate, the Army’s liberal use of the title, combined with the media’s general confusion regarding the debate itself, will almost certainly mean this fight is a long way from over.
“The Rangers have a rich and colorful history, one that stretches back to the 1600s, well before the birth of the United States itself — but the matter of who gets the honor of calling themselves a Ranger will no doubt be argued in perpetuity.”
So who’s really right?
Rangers truly do lead the way, and on this one, I’m inclined to follow in the footsteps of a number of prominent Rangers, Murphy included, in saying that it ultimately really doesn’t matter. While some may see “Tabbed” Rangers as imposters or “Scrolled” Rangers as the only rightful heir to the Ranger namesake, the debate itself really sort of loses sight of what each of these (admittedly separate) accomplishments really mean.
Graduating from Ranger School and making it in the 75th Ranger Regiment are both incredible accomplishments that any service member should be proud of. The work that goes into earning a Tab or a Scroll are both worthy of the respect of those of us sitting on the sidelines in other branches of service or the civilian sector. The debate is certain to rage on, and many on both sides of it will raise valid points that speak to their own experiences and pride… but from the outside looking in, it may be best to just step aside and let the guys and gals wearing tabs and scrolls duke it out with one another, if they’re so inclined.
I want to be a royal ranger’s if possible any help from you or if you can be my mentor I will be happy
Am interested in royal rangers
If you were Victor designated on your MOS you were a true Ranger. Anything else is Ranger qualified.
The victor identifier used to given after you earned your Ranger Tab. Is it different now? Honest question here. My MOS was 11BV2. I didn’t spend a day in the Regiment. RLTW 12-92 BRC 96
I’m not a Army Veteran but, I have served in the U.S. Navy and the navy would never let you serve in Seals Battalion without first completing BUDs/ Seals school. Why does the army even allow you serve in a Ranger Battalion without first completing Ranger school.
Because the Ranger Regiment would not exist if it did not take Privates into the Regiment. They have to fill 3 Battalions of Rifle companies. Regiment likes to raise there own, sift them, get them up to speed, then as a Pfc, some 2 to 3 years later, send them to Ranger School. Upon return they are promoted and work to enter the NCO ranks.
The Rangers who attend Ranger school are far more mature then a Graduated seal candidate. Far more trained with multiple missions under their belts.
The Ranger Regiment doesn’t play Fuck Around! You do or you don’t!
I don’t like Jar Heads, because they got the Biggest mouths in the room, and that goes for Squids too!
The “Ranger School” is a form of “leadership course”. It is open to any soldier from any MOS. It is not intended to, and does not train soldiers to perform the types of operations an Airborne Ranger unit is tasked to perform. Every fucking REMF General in the Army wears a black & gold RANGER tab. Supply clerks who have never fought a day can “earn” a RANGER tab. It is a “hey-look-at-me” fucking googaw.
An Army Ranger is a man who has proven himself FIT to be accepted for assignment to an actual Airborne Ranger unit performing Ranger missions, is or was assigned to a Ranger unit, successfully learned to operate as a Ranger, and carried out Ranger missions.
An Army Ranger is a man who performs or performed Ranger missions.
A graduate of the “Ranger School” is just a common soldier who toughed out a course to “earn” a googaw for his uniform.
I was asigned to Lima Co Rangers in VN right from 101st SERT training, ran Ranger missions for 351 days. Two years later I served as original cadre with 2/75 at Fort Lewis before the Ranger Regiment’s activation in 1974.
Never got a tab and never wanted one. I am an Army Ranger.
I went to rip aka the ranger indoctrination program, now it’s called rasp. You have to complete these programs to get into the 75th ranger regiment. My mos was not a combat Mos, the 75th ranger regiment has every Mos that any other unit would have, so to say that a soldier with a tab that didn’t serve in the regiment is in somehow inferior is bs. I can tell you first hand that ranger school is waaaay harder than just earning the tab. I knew several guys with tabs that could not pass ranger school. In my opinion whether you have the tab or the scroll ,you are both rangers,just like a person who completes jump school,but doesn’t serve in an airborne unit is still a paratrooper… Ijs
Perfectly said, outstanding. Former AB Ranger 3/75th.
Here’s a question for ya. If you’ve got a sister-service member who deployed and served with the 75th, but then later crossed over to the Army, how do they determine the combat patch they wear?
The 75th Ranger Regiment Unit is an entity within the US Army. I wore both a Ranger scroll and the 101 Airborne Division patch. Please reframe your question.
I served in 75th Ranger Regiment for 3 years. This is what I know to be specific. The only approving authority is a Ranger Commander for the Ranger Battalion that you are claiming and bragging about. If you have orders DA Form 1610 or Deployment orders from 75th Ranger Regiment that says Joe Vigina is attached to 1st, 2nd, 3rd, RSTB, MID, or HQ to support a Combat mission in Afghanistan, Iraq, or the Secret Scroll shit, then once you complete that rotation or deployment, the Ranger Regiment will due a ATTENTION TO ORDER…and they will award you the authorization almost like an award to wear the bad ass SCROLL. There is no other way period and if I see you with a deployment SCROLL on your combat side of your uniform, I will CHECK and asked you and if you bullshit me, I will contact the Unit you are in and follow up on that SCROLL, is a simple call and boom you get hit with an Article 15, for lying as fuck and other UCMJ punishments. You will be told to removed that Patch.
AMEN!
Graduated Ranger School class 5-88. Did not serve in the regiment. I always make the distinction that I made it thru Ranger School and consider myself “Ranger qualified”. I always point out to civilians the difference between the school and the Regiment. I do however address any of my Ranger School fellow grads as “Ranger”.
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No one wins the MOH .
I am old school. Graduated Ranger School class 14-70. BAck then if you had a Ranger tab you were considered by all to a Ranger. Went to Vietnam and served as a squad leader Echo Co recon. Most of us were Ranger tabbed. . There was the the 75 Rangers Companies attached to most all the divisions in Vietnam. In our Recon platoon we did many of the same missions and patrols as the 75th Rangers. In todays debate of who qualifies to be called Ranger or not I would side with the Battalion Rangers. But this by no means diminishes the significance of having the tab.
It is difficult to read some of the very negative comments directed at Tab wearers. I do not personally know of any tabbed individuals who deserve disrespect written in this debate.
Eh…no
Every officer in combat arms and every one E5 and above had better have a ranger tab or they will have stalled out careers. Guess what every tabbed infantry officer in the 10th Mountain are not considered and no calls them Rangers case closed.
Thank you for your service, sir.
Rangers were in the Nam. Most were on L.R.R.P or L.R.P. teams assigned to different units, 101st, 82nd, 1st Cav., etc. Some units formed their own lrrp teams that weren’t rangers. The 75th Ranger Regiment wasn’t formed until after the Vietnam war.
You are incorrect. The 75 RANGER Regiment was formed from the 13 existing LRRP units while I was in Vietnam. Jan1, 1969.I wore the scroll. Company E, 75th Rangers, 9th Infantry. Formerly CO E, 50th Inf LRRP.
The easy answer to this entire dilemma is as follows: On paper, those who passed RASP are the only Rangers. In spirit, moral, and ability, the Ranger qualified should be allowed to be called Rangers because of there training. In the end, the highest distinction between the two is the training. Both can have the title Ranger when being referred to, but only one will have the scroll.
Before RASP it was RIP, it should have stayed RIP. The TAB vs the SCROLL,nothing but a pissing contest.
I’m Ranger qualified and I have always said qualified not apart of the regiment
What a joke. If you earn the tab then your a Ranger. If you serve in a Ranger Regiment then you are called a Ranger, tab or no tab. The only people that make a big deal about distinction are those who serve in a Ranger unit. I saw one convent below that implied that if you served one day in a Ranger unit with no tab you are still a “Ranger.” Once a marine always a marine mentality. Ranger Regiments is a special mission unit. Just like the 82nd or 101st. In the rest of the Army if you have a Ranger Tab you are a Ranger- period- end of story. I flew Rangers around in the back of my Blackhawk. I don’t call myself a Ranger because of that. I call myself a Ranger because I have a tab and I was an infantry scout in the 82nd and I did “range the woods.”
First, if it is true that only those in a Ranger unit make the distinction … that may be telling. Those with a Tab cannot dispute that a Regimental Ranger is an Army Ranger.
Secondly, just to be clear, neither the 82nd nor the 101st are SMUs or Special Mission Units. While they are storied units, they are not in any way SMU or Special Operations Command. Army Rangers are Tier 2 (with the Regimental Recon Company being a Tier 1 (with SEAL Team 6, DEVGRU, and ISA being Tier 1) while the divisions you mention are Tier 3.
I point this small detail out because it may allow us to interpret your “Ranger” analysis as well.
Lol Seal Team 6 and Devgru are the Same thing you meant Delta probably and you’re missing the 24th Special Tactics Squadron as well.
I never served in Regiment, but for what, 63 days, I got off the porch and ran with the big dogs. I earned my tab. Tried getting assigned to Regiment but it never happened. Earning that tab means a lot. Anybody who earns their tab, in my opinion, becoming Ranger qualified, is an Army Ranger. Even Batt boys have to admit they would rather have someone Ranger qualified to work with, instead of just someone that was just infantry. Im proud of my accomplishment, nobody can take that from me. We all did the same training, to the end.
Ummm. No. Military occupation skill. The MOS is what the US Army uses to designate what you are. When a soldier graduates Ranger school his MOS is changed to reflect he IS a Ranger. Until very recently Ranger Batt boys received no change in MOS.
Ok, I may be too antiquated to understand this, but Batt Boys retain their MOS while serving in Regiment. For example, an 11B (Infantryman) is always an 11B Infantryman. However, the ASI (V for Victor) is added to the MOS when completing Ranger School. This same ASI is added to anyone who graduates Ranger School. However, the TO&E (manning and equipment) in a Ranger Battalion has slots that are coded for V(ictor) and they are manned with the necessary MOS with an ASI of V.
Thus, Batt Boys do not get an MOS change (in Special Forces, an Infantryman WOULD get an 18 series MOS change once they completed their training for the new MOS).
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I agree with everything you said. As a former member of the storied 75th Rangers I can attest to what you said. You might add that to the ranger battalions , ranger school is an leadership school that all NCOs are required to attend as fast as they can get a slot. Sometimes it can take a very long time. RLTW
I served in O Co 75th for a number of months trained in the field, made a few jumps, but did not go to Ranger school, then received orders for Viet Nam but was diverted at the VN Transit Detachment, Ft Lewis, then served as a court recorder for summary courts marshal, never returned to the 75th. I really never knew if I could call myself a ranger.
If you served a day. You ARE a Ranger. RLTW!
Agreed, if you served in a Ranger Unit (in Vietnam there were Ranger or LRRP Companies) or in the 75th AND you served with honor (meaning you were not released for cause), then you are a Ranger. RLTW.
I have copy of the current Ranger Handbook, SH 21-76. Inside the the front cover is the Ranger Creed. The Rangers have been around a long time, Rangers have been without tabs, with tabs, diamonds, tabs and scrolls, scrolls only and other qualifications and bravado. Having earned a scroll means you earned a scroll not a Ranger Tab. I din’t know how the Army let unit training be superior above their historic course at Ft. Benning. If you have a scroll and are in a unit call yourself an Army Ranger, serve well and be a good leader. But don’t tell me I am not a Ranger just because I only have a tab. It’s what you do after you earn the tab that lets other soldiers and leaders know if you are a true Ranger or not. Tabs and scrolls are just pieces of cloth. You are a Ranger because others believe you are one and will follow you into combat and they will call you “Ranger”. I believe most MOH winners were not Rangers so we don’t have the corner on good soldiering. My hats off to anyone who serves and does so with honor and I would not disrespect them. It is not the Ranger thing to do. Major Pachuilo, Ranger Class 9-73, served with A Co 75th Rangers, Ft. Hood, TX, (still have the scroll), Pathfinder (was in a Pathfinder platoon so I am a real Army Pathfinder), Airborne with 59 jumps in Airborne Infantry units, Air Assault qualified and a Senior Aviator flying Huey MEDEVAC in Desert Storm (BSM, AM, MSM). You can say what ever you are for whatever reason. I will applaud your service. There is nothing in any official Army document that allows you to decide that I am not a Ranger. I consider myself a Ranger for the Tab I wear even after I left my Ranger unit and took the scroll off my uniform. But Ranger school is the hardest thing I ever did and I will recognize anyone with a Tab as a fellow “Ranger.”
What years were you at ft Hood? I was the doc I. The company before they reformed the battalions. Then, Sgt. Wright. I agree Tab or scroll they are a ranger!
I was in 2nd Plt, A Co 75th Rangers, 1st Cav Div, Ft Hood, TX from May 1973 until Oct 1974. RLTW
Couldn’t be said better major. RLTW
And there it is boom💥 now drop the mic sir, I couldn’t have said it any better. you just summed up the whole fkn debate ranger school is way harder than rasp, tab or scroll they are both rangers.👏
Amen!
Here is a good reference. Everyone has an opinion. Two prominent Rangers recently sounded off,
Colonel Keith Nightingale, US Army (Retired), the first commander of 1-75, and General Raymond Thomas, US Army Retired, former commander of US Special Operations Command (SOCOM), both said that those who successfully graduate and earn their Ranger Tabs, are as much Rangers as those who serve in the 75th Regiment. Add to that this article from the US Army Ranger Association. For me, this pretty much settles the argument. Rangers Lead The Way!
https://ranger.org/Who-Is-A-Ranger
Served with then 1LT Nightingale in the 52d Vietnamese Ranger Bn. With no tab. We went through the in country Vn Ranger school. What does this make me? In 69 I worked my airborne a__ off and awarded the Tab with the V. Never served in the 75th. What does make me now? Now Colonel (R) Nightingale thinks of as the same firm leader as I were before I received my tab. Ranger Steven Brown said that you may be a “Bearer or a Wearer” of the tab. If you don’t know which you, there may be a problem.
The tab says “Ranger”, not “Ranger Qualified”.
Had no choice , I had too attend and pass ranger school in order too become a member of force recon . But that doesn’t make me an army ranger..
Until you suit up and conduct special military operations in support of foreign policy with the Ranger Regiment (this includes all units in the lineage of the prestigious Ranger history) you don’t get to call yourself Ranger.
A 2 month camping trip doesn’t earn you that right.
/debate
As noted earlier on thread, those such as myself who served in the lineage units such as RVN era LRRP and LRP are now considered Rangers. We still prefer to be known as LRRPS (173rd ABN LRRP TL 66-67)
I am a Paratrooper, not a Ranger. I served in the 82nd Airborne Division, as well as several other non Airborne units, I’m still a Paratrooper and I always will be. All this debate is, is a distraction by a liberal congressman. The fact is, like many Army schools, Ranger School earns you an “identifier” on your MOS. For Airborne School, it’s a “P”. If you don’t have a “P” and graduate from Ranger School , you get a “G”. If you have a “P” and you graduate Ranger School, that changes to a “V”. That gives me the impression that, to the Army, graduating from Ranger School makes you a Ranger. Do I really care what some Colorado liberal thinks? The short answer is “NO”.
You raise an interesting point that may shed light on the Ranger v Ranger debate.
If you attended Jump School and got your wings but never served in an Airborne unit, are you a Paratrooper or just Airborne Qualified?
I submit that a Paratrooper is one who served in an Airborne Unit. Otherwise, you went to school and became qualified to jump, but never did. Like a Tab Wearer who is qualified to be a Ranger but never became one. Just my 2 cents.
That is the best explanation posted. Just think of what he said and digest it. It makes perfect sense. I always wondered why someone would want to attend Ranger school but not go to a Bn.
Sorry to say this but every ranger wanted to be a US MARINE!!! We are the few the proud The Marines. Ijs
You’re an idiot. We know that, because only idiots post moronic comments like that on an article that they were barely able to read.
If all RANGERS want to be Marines, why do Marines attend RANGER School?
Now, while you ponder that go eat some crayons and have your mom bring you a nice, warm cup of cat piss down to your basement “apartment” to wash it down…
I watched hundreds of Navy personnel fail not only “Ranger”school but even jump school; he needs to go sell his woof tickets somewhere else!
Ranger power for real for liife. Marine, my ass rides on navy equipment. Off beat out of line,
LOL – Class 9-88. My first Ranger-buddy was a high speed marine LT. He had to drop due to knee injury. Great guy, we leaned on each other and did well…until his USMC knee gave out! Semper Fi my friend
If you actually, seriously think that soldiers who went to Ranger school wanted to be a Marine, then you are woefully ignorant and need to inject yourself with some common sense. RLTW
MSG Tim Martin was a REAL Ranger. He served in the 2/75; 1st SFG(A); and, with Delta.
It’s what you’re made of and what’s inside you that makes you a Ranger, not whether you wear a tab or a scroll. You’ve got to have the right heart, mind, and soul to be a REAL Ranger! RLTW!!!
A loud “Amen” to that my Brother from another Mother! It’s called ” Intestinal “fortitude”!
My husband served in the 2/75 th and went on to Delta or C.A.G. as well. 10 with the rangers and 13 with Delta
I know that I would have been laughed out of my Q course and selection back in ‘02 without both tab and scroll….. just giving my personal experience. And looking back, now I get it.
Which Q course?
JJ (1st and 3rd bats)
A moot point to those who never endured the training, combat, op tempo, and sacrifices made to those who served in a Rgr BN and Regt. Be proud of who you are and what you’ve accomplished, but don’t ride on the coat tails of others for the sake of false recognition. That’s what digs at the soul of the Batt Boys. Simply put, a tab is a TRADOC School, and yet a requirement for Regt, but a Scroll is a way of life. Side note; I graduated Ranger School Class 14-80 as a PVT/E2 from 1/75th
You are so right. All of this back and forth about who is what, it IS summed up that being in a Bn IS a way of life. Until you’ve “lived” it, you can’t say you are.
I never earned my tab.
I’m what they call a tabless B!tch.
But, however I did “earn” my Black Beret. After graduating R.I.P.
(Ranger Indoctrination Program)
back in 1988. So yes I consider myself as a Ranger.
I was always told.
” The tab is an award, the scroll is a way of life !
RLTW! HOOAH!
Nothing but love Ranger Buddy!
Not sure what all of the fuss is about. I identity as an Army Ranger.
#LiveYourTruth
#noTab
#noScroll
#noGender
#/s
The soldiers that finished Ranger school and never went to a Ranger Battalion are also called “Paper Rangers”. My experience working with both is like the difference between day and night. I will go anywhere with a Ranger from the Ranger Batallion but with a Paper Ranger I will Not even dare to go to a bar with them.
Thanks from a retired Army vet , some of these comments are just spin by people who never met the grade to be a scrolled ranger because they only wanted that school on there record not the sacrifice of being in the regiment with tab and scroll
TO ARBO
Class 4-93 Retired 2012
To the young man who said he would not follow a “paper Ranger” to a bar.
I agree with most Brothers on this site that you are a Ranger rather you have a Tab, a Scroll, or if you have been in the shit supporting one or the other. I consider you all my Brothers/Sisters. One great thing about special operations is you get to pick your battles and if it is a 80% potential success (under risk management) or nobody will politically commit suicide then the mission is a go. If not, time for a FRAGO or wait for more favorable conditions. Don’t get me wrong every Soldier or Marine would want that but that is a very small group that gets that luxury but I have great respect for those who do along with everyone that has worn a uniform supporting and defending our Constitution and Flag.
My very first Top I had was an XO on a Seal team in Vietnam. He was wounded and the Navy medically discharged him. As soon as he was able he enlisted in to the Army as an E-6. He did 3 more tours in Vietnam and on his first tour went to Ranger School while down range. After his second tour he went to Q School and served his third tour in Vietnam with the Special Forces. This guy was maybe 5’5” but in his dress uniform he looked like a South American General with all the scare me badges he had. He gave me the best advise I ever heard. He said you can accomplish every School the military has to offer and you can receive every medal ever invented but you are not shit if you are not the master of your chosen craft and those put in your charge trust and follow you. No matter how much metal is on your collar or how many chevrons are on your sleeve men follow leaders not rank or badges. Ranger School is an Advanced Infantry Leadership School and when or if you complete it your job is to lead by example and help others become masters of their craft so they can lead and help others survive what combat situations you may experience. My biggest agreement is someone wrote you are a Ranger if you follow and live by the Creed. So would you now have a drink with a “paper Ranger”?
After Fallujah in 2004 we were combined with a Marine unit to provide force protection by Camp Victory in Bagdad along route Irish. We had a young PFC who before we deployed was injured during RIP and was not able to go to Ranger School. I saw myself in this kid when I was his age (not quite as determined though). He wanted nothing more than to be a Ranger and work with K9 Operations at the Battalion and compete in the Ranger Competition. He read the Ranger hand book more times than an angelical minister had read the bible. He knew the Ranger Creed backwards and forward. He trained on his own time at things he was not the best at. He tried to learn everything he could to Master His Craft. Even though he did not have the Tab he lived and breathed the creed and it was in his heart. On a patrol along route Irish there was a contractor group that got hit. His patrol made contact and laid down suppressing fire. This young man dragged two wounded back behind a gun truck and was shot in both legs. Evidently he noticed a local kid was curled up in a ball in the middle of the firefight and even though he was wounded ran out and shielded this kid from the rounds (taking more rounds) to save a kid. His Platoon Sergeant and I visited him before he was evac to Germany. This kid was not in good shape but as they said you get them on a medivac with a pulse they have a 90% chance. His Platoon Sergeant (fellow Ranger) safety pinned a Ranger tab on his shoulder. If that kid did not display the legacy of a Ranger or if you don’t think his actions did not uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of the Rangers then no one has the right. Later after he recuperated at Walter Reed and 7 months after getting back to Ft. Bragg he went to Ranger School and performed very well I understand. BTW, That Platoon Sergeant I mentioned has the prestigious Honor Guard badge and has a beautiful engraved Colt 1911 that he received by winning the Best Ranger competition. He never served at the Battalion but yet he beat out a scrolled Ranger for Best Ranger. I bet that team from the Battalion with the scrolls had drinks with him and celebrated their brothers victory. Would you? He was a “Paper Ranger”
What I am trying to say is I agree with our fellow brothers and sisters, it is not the tab or scroll on your arm or even if you have one. Every job in the Army comes down to supporting the grunts (without them you can’t do your craft). It is your actions and what you have in your heart along with trying to master your craft and teaching the future while honoring the past that makes a leader. As Rangers we are just trying to fill the boots of those before us and it is YOUR job to make sure the legacy and honor lives on. Rangers Leads The Way (as long as the present does not tarnish it). So young man, remember you are part of a brotherhood that was a legacy way before you and me. But it is something a special few will ever be a part of but be humble to those who support you (if they have a tab/scroll or not) because you need them just as much as they need you. I want to say Thank you to everyone that has ever served and hopefully this young man will be willing to have a beer with anyone who has taken the oath and who has followed the creed. I am proud to call myself a Ranger even if I am just a “qualified Ranger”. Because of the creed that I swore too and followed, and because of my experience and things that I learned in class 4-93 along with good NCO’s along the way like Top Cutts. I was able to train men and save lives in my 4 tours between Iraq and Afghanistan. I just pray that I served well and honored the heritage and continue to do so. I hope you can say the same when you get to be my age young man.
Went to get promotion points .
Back in the early 1980’s I attended and completed IOBC (Infantry Officer Basic Course). The entire course was structured and conducted as if each man was to attend Ranger School. Many of our cadre had been instructors at the Ranger School and part of the course was a Ranger FTX that was conducted at Camp Darby. Even though this particular training was only about a week long it instilled an enormous amount of respect in me for Rangers. I don’t remotely consider myself to be a Ranger however, it made me a much better and more confident rifle platoon leader.
Those who complete Ranger School and/or serve in one of the Ranger Battalions are unarguably the world’s finest soldiers.
I guess you can compare this also to Airborne qualified soldiers. Those that finish Airborne school are parachutist and those that serve in an Airborne unit are Paratroopers and are Airborne!
But they are termed “Legs” if not parachute qualified. As capable at their jobs as they are. They are called Legs.
The nickname “Leg” is not base on your capabilities at their jobs, is a nickname because you are not a paratrooper
Senator Cotton refers to himself as a ranger and everyone goes berserk. The Connecticut senator who LIED about being a Vietnam vet and nobody beats an eye. Guess it helps to be a Democrat. BTW, I graduated froM SFQC November 7, 1969. Served 12 months in RVN with MACVSOG. Then 35 years later at age 55 served 12 months in Iraq. Never went to ranger school but I have the Long Tab that says I’m the best soldier in the army. When I graduated the Q course was 7 months ths long. Now it’s nearly 2 years long. But said.
I wear the long tab too I agree with your statement we are the best soldiers in the army. I was in 7th Special Forces Group we had a lot of Rangers from the Ranger Bn they were good operators.
Hey you Long Tab Snake Eaters, go find your bitch session! 🤣 Shouldn’t you be down on the boarder turning all those Honduran’s into guerrillas and heading them back south…😉
Graduated Ranger School 1972 and the Director, COL David Grange a great leader and warrior, said I was a Ranger. LTG (Ret) Grange never was in a TO&E Ranger unit, not in the 75th Regiment or wore the tan beret. Yet the Best Ranger competition is named after him and he is in the Ranger Hall of Fame. How come if he is not a Ranger by most comments. Confused!
I served in the 1st Bn(Ranger)75th Inf, Ft Stewart, Ga. 31313, when “First Battling” was activated! I call myself a “Ranger”Qualified Army “Ranger” with a combat arms Mos. One of the best medics I seen was in the “Rangers”; never went to “Ranger”school! But that PFC saved my “Life”, he’ll always be a Ranger to “Me”!
Ranger qualifed 9-87, never served in a Battalion and a NAP. I do not and will not say I was a Ranger. An infantry soldier who believes my time spent in Ranger School made me a better leader. It really can be that simple!
Ranger. That’s great. You lead. Etc. Many a times you dont get to sleep or maybe a couple of hours. You always have to be On Guard. That NO ONE sneaks up on you. I had been in the Army National Guard. Learned a lot. We are considered. Weekend Warriors.
Gentlemen,
I agree with most of you. I am Ranger qualified and have never served in a Ranger Regiment. However, I have been a Ranger Instructor with that said. Every single one of you must agree. A Ranger is a Ranger. It’s a brotherhood or at least it should be. Just like any brotherhood we have our substandard performers. Regiments have the option to get rid of those that don’t meet the standards but like in most SOC units we have guys that slip through the cracks. If you served in a Ranger Regiment and deployed without a tab, you earned your combat scroll and can proudly say that, “I earned my scroll in “XX Regiment”. Does it make you a Ranger, maybe, but if you never earn your tab, you will never be recognized as a Ranger leader. If you don’t go to Ranger school during your time in a Ranger Regiment you will have an expiration date and sent to the regular army. What happens when that Soldier become Ranger qualified in an Regular unit…. is she/he a Ranger now? This debate will never end. If you have earned your black/tan beret by going to RIP/RASP or are Ranger Qualified my hats off to you. I consider you my brother or sister in arms. You earned your respect from a lot us, but also understand you must live the creed and earn that scroll or tab daily. We can call ourselves “Rangers” or “Ranger Qualified” because we all endured hell, either RIP/RASP/Ranger School, WE did what other did not have the courage to do.
Although the back and fourth is entertaining it will never en, but I guarantee if a Ranger scroll or qualified is in need, You will not give you back to them.
Thus the reason it says, RANGERS LEAD THE WAY! not RANGER REGIMENT LEADS THE WAY!
My hats off to you my “Brother” from another Mother! I sew my Ranger tab on with white thread; wore the “Black” beret with Ranger flash, JOTC twice, Air Assault! Anyone who served with a Ranger Bn/Regiment jumped all the Ranger equip is a good Ranger to me, nuff said, Hoourah! Rangers Lead the Way, 100% and then some!
There is a rich heritage that defines what it means to be a Ranger. That Ranger heritage is an amalgam of different organizations with no constant definition. This heritage finds its origins prior to the U.S. birth and continues to evolve today. Roger’s Rangers did not earn a tab, nor were Merrill’s Mauraders in the 75th. Whether you attended Ranger school, served in the Regiment (garrison or combat), or were a part of units run by Mosby or Darby, all were considered Rangers in their place in history. Consider the LRP and LRRP units of Vietnam(some scroll sported the Airborne Ranger logo and others didn’t). They were know as Ranger Teams just like the LRS unit I was in in the 1990’s. The world is dynamic and what was yesterday might not be today. So today, maybe the only way to be a Ranger is to be a part of the 75th. However, that proposition is a matter of taste and not truth, and is not tenable unless you can cite the governing canon; this new definition or Ranger retroactive. What was yesterday does not change with the times. In the historical context, Congressman Cotton is a Ranger, but perhaps, not to the millennial snowflakes of today who believe in multiple truths, not the truth. In fact, this is a waste of time as we should focus our collective energy on more pressing matters. RANGERS LEAD THE WAY.
Amen my “Brother;” well written, you can ( CMA) my anytime! My black beret is off to you; anytime!
Hooah. I agree Brother. Served with two LRS units and can trace direct to 75th. As one my Regiment Brothers told me when we’re in a unit like that we live the life. Tabbed or un Tabbed Regiment or LRS we are a Brotherhood
And what you speak so eloquently to the lineage of the Rangers is what makes the Regiment what it is today. But ones General Abrams reinstated the Rangers in 1974, that was the start of a new modern organization/units. So that is where the real rub begins, Tab vs the Scroll, TRADOC Leadership School vs Operational Ranger Units, Ranger Qualified Tabbed Soldiers vs SOCOM Unit. Let’s face it, everybody wants to be cool, but if you’re projecting yourself as something that your not, then you should be stripped of that little gold thing on your shoulder. For those that are proud of their accomplishments by graduating ranger school, realise that you have been given the skill set to go on and train great warriors. Ranger Regiment is a unit made of selected few, Ranger Tab is a school for tomorrows leaders from all service’s.
Sorry for the spelling best editing is always after posting…🤣
Don’t care.
The ASI 5R simply states RANGER if a person is awarded this ASI they are a Ranger. I get the point of the scroll vs tab but until the army changes the ASI designation it’s a mute point.
One more RIVER to Cross……Where have you been?
I went to RIP passed and was assigned to 2nd Ranger Bn Ft Lewis, Wa in 1991. In 1992 I went to Ranger school and passed the coarse. I left Ranger Bn in 1993 and went to various units but spent most of my 26 years with the 82nd Airborne at Ft Bragg, NC and deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan several times. Anyway that should give everyone my history as a Ranger. I will admit serving in the 75th Ranger BN is very different from any other unit I served with.
One of my NCOS at 2/75th used to say there are 3 ways to be a Ranger… One pass RIP/ RASP or whatever they call it now days and get assigned to a Ranger Bn. Two Pass Ranger school, and 3 be a Ranger at heart.
I think the key point is be honest with people which Ranger you are and you shouldn’t have any issues.
As a USMC, 2d Force Recon, Ranger School graduate Class 1-83; I have been very careful to only claim the title “Ranger Qualified”.
I have more than a few true Ranger friends that have described the years of Spartan barracks life style from Private on up to finally getting the chance to go to RIP, then go to Ranger School, earn your tab, and then become a Ranger NCO in the battalion. Sorry gang, if you weren’t raised in Sparta, you’re not a Spartan. Same with the Rangers.
My opinion. Discuss!
Let me throw a M67 into the mix here. I was in the Air Force, ETAC/JTAC, Tabbed 1/87, spent total 8 years in the 1st Bn. Combat Tabbed & Scrolled plus jump, not a hero but know a bunch. I will say when asked, Ranger qualed and served 8 years in Bn and in the Air Force. Bottom line once a Ranger always a Ranger!
“Aloud Amen”; their is a huge difference from being Ranger qualified; to also being in a “Bn”, similar to day and night! “Ranger”SSG Graham, 100 percent and Some, “Difficult we do “Immediately; the”Impossible” a little Longer! Hourah,Hourah!
You had me at JTAC…..😍🤣
Yep your one of us, just like the FISTERS. Red headed stepchildren we are. 1/75th Leads The Way! (80-86 BN FSNCO Trundy)
I was in a Special Forces unit and never went to the Q Course. So do I call myself a Green Beret? No. They issued me a Green Beret, but I never wore it because I didn’t earn it.
You earned it My Brother from “Another Mother”! You may not have went to the Q-Course; but damn’t “You” Served/Jumped with you earned the right to”Wear” the beret& not the “Tab”! I live in Roseburg,Oregon!
Thankyou my brothrr.
For the rest of my life I doubt I would run into someone as spot on and a true brother. Be proud of what you ate.
Obviously! are.
If you served with the 82ND Airborne and went to Ranger school I consider you an Airborne Ranger. Ft. Bragg is the Special Operations Command Center. Don’t walk up to an 82ND combat vet and give him any lip about who is what.
Best Ranger competition, consists of Rangers from all around the globe, it isnt just Scroll Versus Ranger tabs.
We all are cut from the same cloth…we are all Brothers and we are all Rangers!!!!!
Chuck Norris always has his eyes upon you!!
What do we call the winners of the Best Ranger Competition that aren’t from the Ranger Regiment.? Oh yeah Rangers.
Was Special Forces Qualified when I went to Ranger School. I consider myself a Ranger just like anyone else that completed the course and earned the coveted Ranger Tab. Ranger class 503-79.
“Whoorah”!
The USARA is open to tabbed Rangers, not just batboys. Shithead from CO needs to take a knee and STFU. And for his edification, there are a damn lot of us who wore the black beret – not a tan one – with the scroll.
Sing it Brother!
I did not attend Ranger School; however, I was Airborne qualified and on jump status in Vietnam with a Long Range Reconaissance Patrol(LRRP) unit. I, and others volunteered for reassignment to the 75th Rangers, which required successfully completing the Recondo School in Nha Trang taught by 5th Special Forces cadre. Our graduation exercise was a patrol in a hostile fire zone where my and another squad took fire and engaged the enemy.
We were awarded a Recondo patch and assigned to a 75th Ranger Company near the DMZ.
Several yrs later there was a rumor that anyone who served in Vietnam with a Ranger unit was authorized to call themselves a Ranger. It didn’t seem right to me, because the nine week course in Georgia was tougher than our 4 week course in Vietnam, so I ignored the rumor, but still proud that I completed the “in country” tactical, map reading, first aid, and patrolling school.
Damn’t your still a “Ranger”; you CMA(Cover My Ass) Anytime!
I went to Ranger school in 1994-95 with several guys from battalion that dropped from from the course. Do we still consider them rangers? Do they just go back to wearing the scroll like it never happened?
Gary, no we do not, those Rangers were sent back to their ranger battalion and released for standards (stripped of scroll and beret then removed from the unit).
Yes I am on the scroll side, a tab does not earn you the right to call yourself a ranger. A scroll also doesn’t earn you the right. Pvts in the organization are the only ones with just a scroll. The leaders have both Tab and Scroll successfully earning the right to be a Ranger.
Thank you for your excellent description. I was scrolled. 92-02. RLTW
So your saying a Batboy who completes RASP (RIP in my day) deploys with the 75th to Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan, comes back, goes to Ranger School, gets hurts, is medically dropped from the school, and consequently is Released For Traing (not for standards like you said) cannot refer to himself as a former Army Ranger? What about half of the Batboys who jumped into Grenada or Panama who weren’t tabbed? Guess they can’t call themselves Rangers either. What you seem to be saying when you wrote, “A tab does not earn you the right to call yourself a ranger. A scroll also doesn’t earn you the right,” is that you can only call yourself a Ranger if you are scrolled and tabbed, and actively serving in the Regiment?
No, if you fail ranger school and return to your battalion without the tab, and you haven’t served with that battalion for some time, you’re in trouble. The additional training and mission set that those serving in the 75th, is significant to say the least. A tab does not make you a ranger, it makes you a ranger school grad. This is only debated by people who don’t have the scroll but have the tab. It doesn’t mean you suck, it only means you aren’t an Army Ranger.
Yes sir. Tabs always want to say they are Rangers. RLTW
I jumped in Grenada with the 2/75 a few months after completing Ranger School ,
Am I considered a ranger? RLTW
Sorry to burst your bubble but the school is a far cry from living and breathing in regiment. In order to be a leader in Bat your must have finished the school. I emphasize school. Having an MBA does not qualify you to run a successful business. Tabs are an award to completing one of the rigorous courses in the military. But people can be tabbed and go back to their unit and slack. That cannot happen at 75th.
You’re spot on, its a leadership course that ought to change its name so we can lay this bullshit to bed. Having a tab and being in the big Army is nowhere near having the scroll and being in a battalion, so to equate these to things only adds creditials to one, while diminishing the other.
As Witt said, if they were dropped from Ranger School because they failed Ranger School, they are dropped and would not be viewed as a Ranger. If they were dropped for medical, that has no impact on their “Rangerness”.
If you have a Combat Scroll and are a dirt bag, you are a Ranger for life. Period. Life is not fair.
Just an FYI … this debate is far more nuanced than you think. I was in 2nd Battalion pre and post the 75th Regiment being flagged as a command. We at 2nd Batt certainly do not consider staff at the 75th HQ to be real Rangers either. 1st Battalion is pretty decent and we grudgingly accept 3rd Batt Rangers as barely being real Rangers. This whole Ranger School thing is just folly not worthy of debate. Of course they are not real Rangers. They are like the girls who date men at the Battalions. A Paper Ranger is kinda like a groupie to us.
A complete and utter folly of an issue. Soldiers who complete Ranger School are Rangers. Every idiot with an hour in the Infantry knows that. Some political hack from Colorado is taking a shot at Tom Cotton. I also know non-tabbed Soldiers who deployed with the 75th and wear the the scroll as their combat patches. Trust me, they are not considered Rangers bc they wear the scroll. Jackass congressman.
11Z, Command Sergeant Major, (Ret).
According to the Ranger Hall of Fame, to be eligible for selection, a person “must have served in a Ranger unit in combat or be a successful graduate of the U.S. Army Ranger School.”
Senator Tom Cotton, the subject of the latest brouhaha about this issue, is a Ranger School graduate.
agree 100%
I am a army ranger I haven’t serviced in the ranger bn. I graduated from ranger school as a honor graduate. I work at the ranger school, training rangers for 8 years. doing witch time students came from the bn and failed. I serviced in units that will hang with the best from the bn. one is 10th mountain so I can tell you it’s a honor to serve in the Ranger bn. but it is a honor to be a army Ranger that never been in the bn.
SMAJ- Spell check is your friend. C-Dubya 3/75
After basic training some guys went through RIP and if they passed, they went on to serve with one of the Ranger BN. During my time in the Army, the Batboy’s were considered Army Rangers. They all (scroll and tab) train together in SpecOps. The tab is the icing on the cake.
Hooah. I agree Brother. Served with two LRS units and can trace direct to 75th. As one my Regiment Brothers told me when we’re in a unit like that we live the life. Tabbed or un Tabbed Regiment or LRS we are a Brotherhood
This issue is a tempest in a teapot!
I went to Airborne and Ranger School. The Ranger Battalions did not exist when I completed these programs. It is common for Soldiers who are Ranger and Airborne qualified and have never been in an Airborne or a Ranger position to refer to themselves as an “Airborne-Ranger.” There is absolutely no subterfuge or misunderstanding what this means to Soldiers and those who know Army culture.